Five and Nine surfaces magic in the world of work and economic justice.

Five and Nine is a podcast newsletter at the intersection of magic, career and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” —every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate.

In these upside down times, it’s time for a new perspective on the classic “9 to 5” (and yes, we’re Dolly Parton fans). In tarot and astrology, reversals and retrogrades matter, because they shed light on our situation in new ways. Five represents turning points and change, and Nine represents a coming to completion. 

We’re all rethinking the meaning of labor and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. 

This podcast is always free, but paid subscribers will get access to special content, including how-to's, journaling exercises, tarot suggestions and more.

Each paid subscription helps support our production costs and honoraria for our speakers. With enough support, we’ll also be able to bring back written transcripts for the show, provide stipends for our producers and hosts, and more.

Want to work with us? Email us at

🎙️ Preview the Five and Nine Podcast

As a podcast newsletter, Five and Nine brings the conversation to text and sound. All podcasts are fully transcribed to encourage accessibility.

Listen to a preview of the first episode here:

✨ Why now? Why magic?

Climate change, pandemics and political turmoil are fundamentally calling into question pre-2020 mindsets toward the value of work, and yet they also highlight that there’s a lot of work to do to build a world rooted in justice. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability.

The age-old practices of intuition and magic have much to offer a world that is now daily subject to existential questions around the very sustainability of our futures. One of the tarot’s four major suits — the Pentacles — deals directly with work, money and labor. Buddhists name ‘right livelihood’ as a key stepping stone in the path toward enlightenment. The ancient astrologers looked to the skies to understand how the turning of the earth and planets shaped the work of agriculture, politics and commerce.

As above, so below. The mundane affairs of the earth and the lofty world of the sky are never far from each other — monthly goal setting follows the rhythms of the moon, quarterly reports move with the four seasons, and the names of the days of the week come from the planets. Even money, that most profane of objects, takes its name from the Roman goddess, Juno Moneta, sacred protector of the people.

We’re all rethinking the meaning of work in our lives. Five and Nine hopes to be part of this conversation.

💖 Core Values

Work with integrity. 

Listen to the emotions.

Honor the spirit, ancestors and our collective being.

Mind our obligations and acknowledge our responsibilities.

Embrace the magic.

Remember that tarot, magic and the other practices we discuss are not a substitute for psychiatric or mental health care services. We present this content as-is, for entertainment and educational purposes only.

😌 Who We Are

Five and Nine is co-founded by Dorothy R. Santos, Xiaowei R. Wang and AX Mina.

Directors of Magic: Dorothy R. Santos and Xiaowei R. Wang
Creative Director: Xiaowei R. Wang
Producer: AX Mina

Dorothy R. Santos (she/they) is into art made with computers and machines. She is a Ph.D. candidate at the University of California, Santa Cruz in the Film and Digital Media department and serves as the Executive Director for the Processing Foundation. She loves spending time with her cat familiar, singing, moon ceremonies, and reading tarot for friends and family. She is a certified tarot reader through the Golden Dome School’s Tarot Initiates Program.

 Xiaowei R. Wang (they/them) makes work that centers community empowerment, technology and ecology. Their work is driven by a deep seated belief in the political power of being present, in dissolving the universal and categorical. They are a certified tarot reader through the Golden Dome School’s Tarot Initiates Program.

AX Mina (she/they), aka An Xiao, is a creative strategist with over a decade of experience in the arts, organizational strategy and leadership, technology development and public speaking. She offers intuitive career coaching for mission-driven folks at all stages in their professional journey.

Portraits by Jason Li

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A podcast newsletter at the intersection of magic, work and economic justice


AX Mina
producer at creative strategist and intuitive coach.
Xiaowei R. Wang
chmod 577 | they/them 🌒 🌕 | #FreeThemAll | civic media fellow @usc | school @logic_magazine | author "blockchain chicken farm" @fsgoriginals | 🎨🍜🔮🌿
Dorothy R. Santos
writer | artist | educator 🔗